and -- now he works with -- with president george w. bush as well. and the time i was interviewing president bush is when i was doing a series of pieces on former presidents and constitution. in that same set of interviews, i interviewed president ford. the last time i saw him. and he said you know, cokie, i just don't understand what's going on in washington. after his many years in the house of representatives. when i was minority leader of the house, and your father, my father, hail boggs was majority leader of the house, he said when we were minority and majority leader, we would get in a cab together and go down to the press club or someplace and say what are we going to argue about? and he would say, that is a legitimate debate. we genuinely disagreed about means to an end. and it was part zing. for heaven's sakes, we were the leaders of our parties. then we got in the cab and be best friends and go back to the hill and be able to be civil with each other, have a drink together and, you know, be very good friends. they were such good friends th